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Dagw00d
12-06-2007, 02:44 PM
Found this on one of those other sites I tripped over.....

With every ECM there is always a fair bit of misinformation about regarding the “new” encryption techniques used, and how it may portend the death of FTA.

With the present difficulties, for instance, the following items of interest have been repeated around the net on various sites:

* This ECM is specifically targeted at FTA
* Multiple MAP call are being used
* A dynamic code is being used
* There is a new timer function


This ECM is specifically targeted at FTA
This is likely true! Card based hacks like plastic, card-sharing, and IKS (Internet Key Sharing, another form of card sharing) access video encryption differently than the emu in FTA firmware. Card solutions simply send encrypted VPID (video packets) to the descrambler chip where the included CW (control word) packets are sent right away to the CAM (conditional access module/card), the answer is sent back and then applied to the video packet. The actual CAM values, apart from definitions and order of the CW gathering commands (i.e., MAP calls) need not be known, as it is all done automatically when requests are sent to the card. FTA firmware on the other hand must know the precise CAM locations and thus order and routine of MAP calls, and this has to be patched into each bin; when this changes a new bin is required where relevant portions of the CAM are emulated.

Multiple MAP calls are being used
This is true, however this is nothing new either. Providers routinely use at least 4 or 5 MAP calls at any given time. MAP calls are intense arithmetic equations that request CWs from the CAM to be sent back to the descrambler. We now have 4e and 4d; there are others in play, but apparently these particular ones are the difficulties (i.e., CAM location unknown).

A dynamic code is being used
“Dynamic” implies changing according to some input. It sounds scary, like a mutating virus, lol. In actuality, “dynamic” is little different that “random” at the level of intense mathematics as the functions and outputs are extremely difficult or impossible to be predicted. By definition, control words are random numbers.

There is a new timer function
Each channel uses different CWs, and this is how now for instance some locals may be viewable and other pay channels remain scrambled. CWs change every few minutes, and this in itself is as secure as practically can be: even an NSA super-cryto computer could not solve an 8-byte algorithm in 2 minutes, lol. CWs have always changed this fast, and all TV providers, even cable, use the same system.

So what is going on?
Nothing radically new, likely. Coders are not crytologists, and even if they were, it would be senseless to attempt decryption on something that changes as quickly as CWs, as mentioned above. And neither can card data be read with any apparent ease (remember all the baloney a year ago about peeling the cards and reading with an electron microscope, hahahahaha, if you believed that one, well, I have some swamp land you may be interested in….). Some CAM locations are known, some are not. ALL of the MAP calls CW answers are currently in the cards and are not changeable, this requires a card swap. What can be changed are the specific MAP calls and their order. These can be read and defined, and even used for card hacking (why IKS is up and running), but FTA is a different story, as mentioned.

Coders must be given specific CAM locations which can be patched into or emulated for FTA binary files. Saying a bin has the “full emu” is ridiculous, as it can’t by sheer size limitations, as it would have to run in non-decompressed format. What is needed is a MAP map, as it were, lol. Or at least someone to give directions, like a navigator.

Most of this information is purchased rather than hacked, at least initially. When a group says they have the “full emu”, what should be understood is that they have access to the information, and it may be purchased as a service over a period of time. This is rather like calling up customer service plan: you call to say your widget isn’t working, and being told to press buttons 1, 2, 3, then A, B, C in that order, you do, it works, but you have no idea why. It seems Viewsat had an arrangement like this after MAP57, they bought a 1 year plan, lol. Others can purchase information on a one-off basis. Or once a bin is released, the bin can be dumped and reverse engineered for patching to different boxes, but this takes a little extra time.

A fix will be forthcoming, the question is: who will cough up the dough first

JP
12-06-2007, 02:48 PM
While thats true in basic terms, I'm confident that the ECM's themselves will only produce minor problems, whereas the sheer frequency of them will keep us down again before fixes are released.

It's gunna be interesting.. ;)

JP

dipa
12-06-2007, 04:36 PM
Its interesting to know all about. Hope for the best.

danidanilian
12-06-2007, 04:53 PM
wow wow wow...so much info..i just have a question: why dont we open in this forum a thread that talks about cards so that everyone can make his receiver work..just like we work with the bins.we can work with cards..is it hard to do??? can't we just switch to cards?

Please advice,

jake100
12-06-2007, 05:22 PM
wow that is a lot of info ....
How can I be of help to the coders? can do some coding..

smileypaul
12-06-2007, 05:22 PM
While thats true in basic terms, I'm confident that the ECM's themselves will only produce minor problems, whereas the sheer frequency of them will keep us down again before fixes are released.

It's gunna be interesting.. ;)

JP

Agreed whole heartedly.

I just picked up my dish, not even aligned yet :(

But looking at the history, and the turn-around time, i too believe that the frequency of them will make most people give up.

But, the next question, do the ECM's cost the providers any money ? and if so, how much are they willing to spend to keep up this frequency :)

just4ufolks
12-06-2007, 05:24 PM
Intresting and as alwayz it's a gr8 learning curve with a perspective like that - but again the FTA community have FAITH in the skillful people helping run the show for the good of the fellow community members..so we give credit to all the hard working folks that help enhance the cost effective viewing experience on an on going basis..

Many thanx to JP for the update on and some reassurance offered on the issue/subject.

Disappointed-yes just like everyone else out there -sure for the frequent trips for THE FIX - but that's nature of the beast..it's pretty challenging and demanding on the resources.

BUT we patiently WAIT as the folks do their magic to FIX -asap - hopefully the dynamics of it will allow for a more stable FIX than it has been in recent weeks?..so we WAIT...keep up the good work folks....

Greetings to all as we head in to the HOLIDAYZ MODE....

Many thanx to JP for the update on and some reassurance offered on the issue/subject.

jdanielspr
12-06-2007, 05:25 PM
EXCELLENT explanation! I couldn't don'it better. Nice job.

wannie
12-06-2007, 06:06 PM
still all french to me...hope for a quick release....but , hey, my hats off to the coders....thanks for working so hard you guys

lambo
12-06-2007, 06:18 PM
Code:

[EMM01]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA000067046500018200101B1EF5A13C A5BA1DCC7872A0756331CE763C728132BF27D5A2F6C2C8FF24 293542A07596DD9B11A1AE0D2240CCD86BADFEDFCCA6C583E6 AF24EECBCD2D02B103E19EE26B95F6FAA202BC7241631A971C 07547DB15FA68894B7E6146F5F0D189702C0
DECRYPTED=73F933EDFD4A0501000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1691D79B3F812FB22DF51D4595673A4D1516 BDBBF582E12FCFE4BCAEE3A18913BA42065340AB3CDC14B2E2 B2C29D310619A1E404A060E19D3C926962D06D5F7CBA7DD4AF 21
SIG=73F933EDFD4A0501
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1691D79B3F812FB22DF51D4595673A4D 1516BDBBF582E12FCFE4BCAEE3A18913BA42065340AB3CDC14 B2E2B2C29D310619A1E404A060E19D3C926962D06D5F7CBA7D D4AF21
[EMM02]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA000067046500018200106622ED42F6 54087EE39248EC77D4FE9B28E591A0DE3EF53A16CD8131BB79 30E9E21964F4FCE56AEA5BAA105765BFF63ABB46A8E1EB6724 334DCBEFAB090877F0430FEDDBACB152BFA283A32E0909ED9F C9DDB515A4A39DDC65EAB98968F7752002D4
DECRYPTED=4AA8503F64B41EF9000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1692169B3F81F60170B3FF9EC3EFDC740596 37E179E7E4621D2A7E97613C24B9F06FB296A049F6205E6829 9155AD05A33487036A85B5F8EBB7EE39E5D26A53703B22E5D6 9E
SIG=4AA8503F64B41EF9
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1692169B3F81F60170B3FF9EC3EFDC74 059637E179E7E4621D2A7E97613C24B9F06FB296A049F6205E 68299155AD05A33487036A85B5F8EBB7EE39E5D26A53703B22 E5D69E
[EMM03]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA000067046500018200106788721681 0B17090D83504B9BAF55627168472F651004D394094E82B8C7 63D75002E36FC9AD8EC05B1418C835B90B9E329B273FC96425 35F3803BD67D852427EB7ED0712EFB78666CCA201C0D582374 4045D1A692160AA495B81AB391AB4C270280
DECRYPTED=5ADD08BD6A9BE380000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1692559B3F8118FF39D1B98162AA57C18A85 DB03EB8C9DAB62F13D8BEE73ABF98365F643DF0581628158EE 45D4A6BA6943528A942187762AC6EBA3D7591D034906ED1A1E 10
SIG=5ADD08BD6A9BE380
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1692559B3F8118FF39D1B98162AA57C1 8A85DB03EB8C9DAB62F13D8BEE73ABF98365F643DF05816281 58EE45D4A6BA6943528A942187762AC6EBA3D7591D034906ED 1A1E10
[EMM04]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA00006704650001820010412DE4371D 92649FCE30A5CA8A7E9A4D39160135E19DE79AB1F7C8758497 17DD43570513EE6FEC7102F1D0E7B00C5D9A74E0D6625B1C59 3451E02BD2F3A5DD978E8F1364B8DA273519F9A294A6FE26EB 88581B20DA77C22C5F9B81165BD07154021F
DECRYPTED=7163AC1F8A040647000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1692949B3F8133F36DF8FC42258ADE6CCC31 59ECE775481986CAC9586734B854C760645207D63B6EAB0616 D29090F83CEC5E834A6A568AF53CED68A94294386FA5FBF362 09
SIG=7163AC1F8A040647
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1692949B3F8133F36DF8FC42258ADE6C CC3159ECE775481986CAC9586734B854C760645207D63B6EAB 0616D29090F83CEC5E834A6A568AF53CED68A94294386FA5FB F36209
[EMM05]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA000067046500018200103DF067F9B9 9978224092E418F5EBE60B12BAAC67AD8F3B4A869986BE71A2 0E9D0043058DF57F296BEE71F55844BFFBC4B4B556E6851660 6757539CA749A226F5A7825DFF028BFA91812482AA758FEB3B 78F94E376856D80376C855321095537C0269
DECRYPTED=6C8E5B16FB26EE12000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1692D39B04810884B6EE0000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00
SIG=6C8E5B16FB26EE12
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1692D39B04810884B6EE000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000

lambo
12-06-2007, 06:18 PM
Code:

$91d7=2fb22df51d4595673a4d1516bdbbf582
$91e7=e12fcfe4bcaee3a18913ba42065340ab
$91f7=3cdc14b2e2b2c29d310619a1e404a060
$9207fe19d3c926962d06d5f7cba7dd4af21
;
$9216=f60170b3ff9ec3efdc74059637e179e7
$9226=e4621d2a7e97613c24b9f06fb296a049
$9236=f6205e68299155ad05a33487036a85b5
$9246ff8ebb7ee39e5d26a53703b22e5d69e
;
$9255=18ff39d1b98162aa57c18a85db03eb8c
$9265=9dab62f13d8bee73abf98365f643df05
$9275=81628158ee45d4a6ba6943528a942187
$9285f762ac6eba3d7591d034906ed1a1e10
;
$9294=33f36df8fc42258ade6ccc3159ece775
$92a4=481986cac9586734b854c760645207d6
$92b4=3b6eab0616d29090f83cec5e834a6a56
$92c4f8af53ced68a94294386fa5fbf36209
;
$92d340884b6ee

wyndancer61
12-06-2007, 10:56 PM
Well, I find Dagwoods info quite interesting, in that I understand about half of what he said. In my last life, I did some programming work in the high tech (military) industry (I'm now an nurse, what does that tell ya?!?!?) Bottom line, the scrambly coders do their thing, the descrambly coders fire back.....it's the ultimate "hacker" battle of wits. Intelligence being equal, the game could go on for infinity........go coders....go

rav
12-06-2007, 11:12 PM
Code:

[EMM01]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA000067046500018200101B1EF5A13C A5BA1DCC7872A0756331CE763C728132BF27D5A2F6C2C8FF24 293542A07596DD9B11A1AE0D2240CCD86BADFEDFCCA6C583E6 AF24EECBCD2D02B103E19EE26B95F6FAA202BC7241631A971C 07547DB15FA68894B7E6146F5F0D189702C0
DECRYPTED=73F933EDFD4A0501000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1691D79B3F812FB22DF51D4595673A4D1516 BDBBF582E12FCFE4BCAEE3A18913BA42065340AB3CDC14B2E2 B2C29D310619A1E404A060E19D3C926962D06D5F7CBA7DD4AF 21
SIG=73F933EDFD4A0501
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1691D79B3F812FB22DF51D4595673A4D 1516BDBBF582E12FCFE4BCAEE3A18913BA42065340AB3CDC14 B2E2B2C29D310619A1E404A060E19D3C926962D06D5F7CBA7D D4AF21
[EMM02]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA000067046500018200106622ED42F6 54087EE39248EC77D4FE9B28E591A0DE3EF53A16CD8131BB79 30E9E21964F4FCE56AEA5BAA105765BFF63ABB46A8E1EB6724 334DCBEFAB090877F0430FEDDBACB152BFA283A32E0909ED9F C9DDB515A4A39DDC65EAB98968F7752002D4
DECRYPTED=4AA8503F64B41EF9000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1692169B3F81F60170B3FF9EC3EFDC740596 37E179E7E4621D2A7E97613C24B9F06FB296A049F6205E6829 9155AD05A33487036A85B5F8EBB7EE39E5D26A53703B22E5D6 9E
SIG=4AA8503F64B41EF9
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1692169B3F81F60170B3FF9EC3EFDC74 059637E179E7E4621D2A7E97613C24B9F06FB296A049F6205E 68299155AD05A33487036A85B5F8EBB7EE39E5D26A53703B22 E5D69E
[EMM03]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA000067046500018200106788721681 0B17090D83504B9BAF55627168472F651004D394094E82B8C7 63D75002E36FC9AD8EC05B1418C835B90B9E329B273FC96425 35F3803BD67D852427EB7ED0712EFB78666CCA201C0D582374 4045D1A692160AA495B81AB391AB4C270280
DECRYPTED=5ADD08BD6A9BE380000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1692559B3F8118FF39D1B98162AA57C18A85 DB03EB8C9DAB62F13D8BEE73ABF98365F643DF0581628158EE 45D4A6BA6943528A942187762AC6EBA3D7591D034906ED1A1E 10
SIG=5ADD08BD6A9BE380
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1692559B3F8118FF39D1B98162AA57C1 8A85DB03EB8C9DAB62F13D8BEE73ABF98365F643DF05816281 58EE45D4A6BA6943528A942187762AC6EBA3D7591D034906ED 1A1E10
[EMM04]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA00006704650001820010412DE4371D 92649FCE30A5CA8A7E9A4D39160135E19DE79AB1F7C8758497 17DD43570513EE6FEC7102F1D0E7B00C5D9A74E0D6625B1C59 3451E02BD2F3A5DD978E8F1364B8DA273519F9A294A6FE26EB 88581B20DA77C22C5F9B81165BD07154021F
DECRYPTED=7163AC1F8A040647000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1692949B3F8133F36DF8FC42258ADE6CCC31 59ECE775481986CAC9586734B854C760645207D63B6EAB0616 D29090F83CEC5E834A6A568AF53CED68A94294386FA5FBF362 09
SIG=7163AC1F8A040647
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1692949B3F8133F36DF8FC42258ADE6C CC3159ECE775481986CAC9586734B854C760645207D63B6EAB 0616D29090F83CEC5E834A6A568AF53CED68A94294386FA5FB F36209
[EMM05]
ENCRYPTED=21006DA0CA000067046500018200103DF067F9B9 9978224092E418F5EBE60B12BAAC67AD8F3B4A869986BE71A2 0E9D0043058DF57F296BEE71F55844BFFBC4B4B556E6851660 6757539CA749A226F5A7825DFF028BFA91812482AA758FEB3B 78F94E376856D80376C855321095537C0269
DECRYPTED=6C8E5B16FB26EE12000113800000181677889F09 10651097B1CD7C1692D39B04810884B6EE0000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00
SIG=6C8E5B16FB26EE12
PROVIDER=0001
DATES=1380000018167788
9F0910651097B1CD7C1692D39B04810884B6EE000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000

You can say that again brother.

Just kidding.

74goat
12-06-2007, 11:17 PM
Whats with all the "crap"...?

mazinn
12-06-2007, 11:38 PM
Didnt we have the same problem last year? where we only had the local channels working and no PPV , i am sure it will be fixed very soon ,and we will be watching the pay channel again, cheers

rejean666
12-06-2007, 11:48 PM
Great explanation Dagw00d, At lease everyone understands why we are going down every day after a fix, The coders are capable of doing temp fix's but untill they come out with a permenet fix that's when we will all be back up and running.

I'm putting my bet's on coolsat will have a card'ed fix first and then viewsat next. and every one eles will follow.just like map 57. Or it might be easyer to maby purchest a blank card for our receavers and the coders giving uss the information to do it our self.

cytophylum
12-07-2007, 01:57 AM
my local channels don't even work.. and i have vs xtreme.. man, you need your english checked. hahahaha

danielv472
12-07-2007, 05:30 AM
Intresting and as alwayz it's a gr8 learning curve with a perspective like that - but again the FTA community have FAITH in the skillful people helping run the show for the good of the fellow community members..so we give credit to all the hard working folks that help enhance the cost effective viewing experience on an on going basis..

Many thanx to JP for the update on and some reassurance offered on the issue/subject.

Disappointed-yes just like everyone else out there -sure for the frequent trips for THE FIX - but that's nature of the beast..it's pretty challenging and demanding on the resources.

BUT we patiently WAIT as the folks do their magic to FIX -asap - hopefully the dynamics of it will allow for a more stable FIX than it has been in recent weeks?..so we WAIT...keep up the good work folks....

Greetings to all as we head in to the HOLIDAYZ MODE....

Many thanx to JP for the update on and some reassurance offered on the issue/subject.



Hey i totaly agree with you i love my tv and all the difrent thing we do to it it is the pleasure of finaly getting the fix witch makes you feel like it is christmas all year round but we need to give credit where credit is deserved and that is to all the coders for giving us or even a chance at this testing hobby so all i got to say is "godspeed my brothers at arms"